Comments on: Story Fields and the Death of Emergent http://www.jrdkirk.com/2010/02/12/story-fields-and-the-death-of-emergent/ Telling the story of the story-bound God Mon, 06 Sep 2010 23:20:23 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: J. R. Daniel Kirk http://www.jrdkirk.com/2010/02/12/story-fields-and-the-death-of-emergent/comment-page-1/#comment-379 J. R. Daniel Kirk Fri, 12 Feb 2010 23:52:14 +0000 http://www.jrdkirk.com/?p=209#comment-379 Everyone: sorry not to get many of your posts up sooner--I was traveling today and couldn't moderate your comments. Thanks for your thoughts. Mike: Great question. It's making me think more about the degree to which such a distinction is only possible right up to the point that important decisions are on the table. Then, does "contrast" of necessity become "opposition"? Of course, that doesn't mean the whole story has to be framed as opposition. Which is the finer point on the website... Everyone: sorry not to get many of your posts up sooner–I was traveling today and couldn’t moderate your comments. Thanks for your thoughts.

Mike: Great question. It’s making me think more about the degree to which such a distinction is only possible right up to the point that important decisions are on the table. Then, does “contrast” of necessity become “opposition”? Of course, that doesn’t mean the whole story has to be framed as opposition. Which is the finer point on the website…

]]> By: Frederik http://www.jrdkirk.com/2010/02/12/story-fields-and-the-death-of-emergent/comment-page-1/#comment-378 Frederik Fri, 12 Feb 2010 23:45:15 +0000 http://www.jrdkirk.com/?p=209#comment-378 Michael, Daniel, Sorry I got it wrong with Mclaren. The UK connection however is the fact that he is part of the Anglican Communion, or used to be? Daniel, I'll look through my Durham file and see whether I can find the NT Wright module programme & some interesting stuff. Frederik Michael, Daniel,
Sorry I got it wrong with Mclaren. The UK connection however is the fact that he is part of the Anglican Communion, or used to be?
Daniel, I’ll look through my Durham file and see whether I can find the NT Wright module programme & some interesting stuff.
Frederik

]]> By: J. R. Daniel Kirk http://www.jrdkirk.com/2010/02/12/story-fields-and-the-death-of-emergent/comment-page-1/#comment-377 J. R. Daniel Kirk Fri, 12 Feb 2010 23:43:01 +0000 http://www.jrdkirk.com/?p=209#comment-377 That does make a huge difference, Connie. At Emergent gatherings I tend to sense that folks there are together because they don't belong somewhere else. A new identity / narrative does need to be constructed for those of us who are caught "running away," as you put it. That does make a huge difference, Connie. At Emergent gatherings I tend to sense that folks there are together because they don’t belong somewhere else. A new identity / narrative does need to be constructed for those of us who are caught “running away,” as you put it.

]]> By: Michael J. Gorman http://www.jrdkirk.com/2010/02/12/story-fields-and-the-death-of-emergent/comment-page-1/#comment-369 Michael J. Gorman Fri, 12 Feb 2010 20:10:34 +0000 http://www.jrdkirk.com/?p=209#comment-369 An observation and an unrelated question: Brian McLaren is not from the U.K. but from the U.S., specifically from my state of Maryland. He was a pastor about 20 miles from here. Daniel: I'm intrigued by the story analysis from Tom Atlee. Since I am currently writing about Revelation, I wonder how that analysis works there. Does Revelation give us primarily a contrast story or an opposition story? And then what about Paul, whose antipathies to Rome are now questioned by some and proclaimed as gospel by others? For Paul I've preferred the term counter-imperial (contrast) rather than anti-imperial (opposition). For Revelation, however... Tomorrow I head out to the cities of Paul and John---for stories both contrasting and oppositional! An observation and an unrelated question:

Brian McLaren is not from the U.K. but from the U.S., specifically from my state of Maryland. He was a pastor about 20 miles from here.

Daniel: I’m intrigued by the story analysis from Tom Atlee. Since I am currently writing about Revelation, I wonder how that analysis works there. Does Revelation give us primarily a contrast story or an opposition story? And then what about Paul, whose antipathies to Rome are now questioned by some and proclaimed as gospel by others? For Paul I’ve preferred the term counter-imperial (contrast) rather than anti-imperial (opposition). For Revelation, however…

Tomorrow I head out to the cities of Paul and John—for stories both contrasting and oppositional!

]]> By: Frederik Mulder http://www.jrdkirk.com/2010/02/12/story-fields-and-the-death-of-emergent/comment-page-1/#comment-366 Frederik Mulder Fri, 12 Feb 2010 18:45:01 +0000 http://www.jrdkirk.com/?p=209#comment-366 Daniel, let me give you one striking quote from Wright which might give you a good idea what we experienced. It comes from his 30 July 2008 paper at the Lambeth Converence with the title: The Bible in Tomorrow's World: "What we desperately need, if we are to pursue a biblical, Christian and indeed Anglican mission in the postmodern world, is the Spirit of Truth. There is no time to develop this further, but it is vital to say this one thing. We have got so used to the postmodern sneer that any truth-claim is instantly suspect. And at that point many Christians have lurched back to the apparent safety of a modernist claim: conservative modernists claim that they can simply look up truth in the Bible, without realising what sort of book it is, while radical modernists claim they find truth in today’s science, without realising what sort of a thing that is either. But we cannot go back; we have to go on; and the Spirit of Truth, often invoked in favour of any and every innovation in the church, is actually at work when we live within the great story, the love story, God’s love-story, and become in turn agents, missional agents, of that story in the world. Truth is not something we possess and put in our pockets, because truth is grounded in the goodness of creation, the promise of redemption for that creation, and the vocation of human beings to speak God’s word both of naming the original creation and of working for new creation – the word, in other words, of mission. The Spirit of Truth is given so that, living within the great biblical story, we can engage in those tasks." Daniel, let me give you one striking quote from Wright which might give you a good idea what we experienced. It comes from his 30 July 2008 paper at the Lambeth Converence with the title: The Bible in Tomorrow’s World: “What we desperately need, if we are to pursue a biblical, Christian and indeed Anglican mission in the postmodern world, is the Spirit of Truth. There is no time to develop this further, but it is vital to say this one thing. We have got so used to the postmodern sneer that any truth-claim is instantly suspect. And at that point many Christians have lurched back to the apparent safety of a modernist claim: conservative modernists claim that they can simply look up truth in the Bible, without realising what sort of book it is, while radical modernists claim they find truth in today’s science, without realising what sort of a thing that is either. But we cannot go back; we have to go on; and the Spirit of Truth, often invoked in favour of any and every innovation in the church, is actually at work when we live within the great story, the love story, God’s love-story, and become in turn agents, missional agents, of that story in the world. Truth is not something we possess and put in our pockets, because truth is grounded in the goodness of creation, the promise of redemption for that creation, and the vocation of human beings to speak God’s word both of naming the original creation and of working for new creation – the word, in other words, of mission. The Spirit of Truth is given so that, living within the great biblical story, we can engage in those tasks.”

]]> By: A New Metaphor is Emerging… | danielleshroyer.com http://www.jrdkirk.com/2010/02/12/story-fields-and-the-death-of-emergent/comment-page-1/#comment-364 A New Metaphor is Emerging… | danielleshroyer.com Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:58:28 +0000 http://www.jrdkirk.com/?p=209#comment-364 [...] before, it is because of this.  Some metaphors I have read and with which I’ve resonated:  JRD Kirk has applied Tom Atlee’s metaphor of “story fields.”  Derek Koehl (former [...] [...] before, it is because of this.  Some metaphors I have read and with which I’ve resonated:  JRD Kirk has applied Tom Atlee’s metaphor of “story fields.”  Derek Koehl (former [...]

]]> By: J. R. Daniel Kirk http://www.jrdkirk.com/2010/02/12/story-fields-and-the-death-of-emergent/comment-page-1/#comment-360 J. R. Daniel Kirk Fri, 12 Feb 2010 16:37:10 +0000 http://www.jrdkirk.com/?p=209#comment-360 Interesting. In Gibbs & Bolger's book on Emergent Church they traced the lineage back to the UK and various non-traditional worship expressions there. I wonder if some of the issues aren't being dealt with outside of the use of an Emergent label? I'd be curious to hear what issues did come up in that conversation. Interesting. In Gibbs & Bolger’s book on Emergent Church they traced the lineage back to the UK and various non-traditional worship expressions there.

I wonder if some of the issues aren’t being dealt with outside of the use of an Emergent label? I’d be curious to hear what issues did come up in that conversation.

]]> By: Frederik Mulder http://www.jrdkirk.com/2010/02/12/story-fields-and-the-death-of-emergent/comment-page-1/#comment-358 Frederik Mulder Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:25:46 +0000 http://www.jrdkirk.com/?p=209#comment-358 Daniel, seems like the whole "Emergent", "Emerging" church stuff did not take off so big here in the UK. Brian Mclaren, though from the UK is doing his thing in the US. I did a course at Durham (UK) last year with NT Wright called "The Bible in Tomorrow's World". More than fifty theologian/pastors from all over the UK attended. We had a great time but the "Emergent/ing" stuff was notably abscent though some of the important issues did arise.. Daniel, seems like the whole “Emergent”, “Emerging” church stuff did not take off so big here in the UK. Brian Mclaren, though from the UK is doing his thing in the US. I did a course at Durham (UK) last year with NT Wright called “The Bible in Tomorrow’s World”. More than fifty theologian/pastors from all over the UK attended. We had a great time but the “Emergent/ing” stuff was notably abscent though some of the important issues did arise..

]]> By: Patrick Klingaman http://www.jrdkirk.com/2010/02/12/story-fields-and-the-death-of-emergent/comment-page-1/#comment-353 Patrick Klingaman Fri, 12 Feb 2010 14:36:31 +0000 http://www.jrdkirk.com/?p=209#comment-353 Insightful post. We Christians don't have a history of always framing a positive vision instead of a mere opposition one (i.e. we still use the term "Protest-ant"). I don't know if what gets labeled "Emergent Church" will live on or be absorbed into something else, but it is hard to imagine that the growing groundswell of desire for change in the Church will "die" anytime soon. Thanks for sharing. Insightful post. We Christians don’t have a history of always framing a positive vision instead of a mere opposition one (i.e. we still use the term “Protest-ant”). I don’t know if what gets labeled “Emergent Church” will live on or be absorbed into something else, but it is hard to imagine that the growing groundswell of desire for change in the Church will “die” anytime soon. Thanks for sharing.

]]> By: Ed Cyzewski http://www.jrdkirk.com/2010/02/12/story-fields-and-the-death-of-emergent/comment-page-1/#comment-350 Ed Cyzewski Fri, 12 Feb 2010 14:00:24 +0000 http://www.jrdkirk.com/?p=209#comment-350 Great observation. Unfortunately the trend in Protestant history is fragmentation after the initial protest. It's always harder to figure out what we're for than what we're against. Thanks for this post. Great observation. Unfortunately the trend in Protestant history is fragmentation after the initial protest. It’s always harder to figure out what we’re for than what we’re against. Thanks for this post.

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