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	<title>Comments on: Doctrine Good. Stories Bad.</title>
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	<link>http://www.jrdkirk.com/2010/03/10/doctrine-good-stories-bad/</link>
	<description>Telling the story of the story-bound God</description>
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		<title>By: Catechesis for the 21st century &#171; Perennial Student</title>
		<link>http://www.jrdkirk.com/2010/03/10/doctrine-good-stories-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-1361</link>
		<dc:creator>Catechesis for the 21st century &#171; Perennial Student</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 00:09:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jrdkirk.com/?p=375#comment-1361</guid>
		<description>[...] Platypus commends another blogger&#8217;s critique of an article in Christianity Today, &#8220;The Lost Art of Catechesis.&#8221; The authors of this [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Platypus commends another blogger&#8217;s critique of an article in Christianity Today, &#8220;The Lost Art of Catechesis.&#8221; The authors of this [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Manlius</title>
		<link>http://www.jrdkirk.com/2010/03/10/doctrine-good-stories-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-1353</link>
		<dc:creator>Manlius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 17:25:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jrdkirk.com/?p=375#comment-1353</guid>
		<description>Creeds and confessions are important, but they are best when they reflect the biblical narrative.  The Apostles&#039; and Nicene creeds work well because they are basic outlines of the story.  The CRC&#039;s contemporary creed is a good example of a creedal formulation applying theology to our story.  The Reformational creeds contain some good content, but their forms diminish the biblical-narrative flow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Creeds and confessions are important, but they are best when they reflect the biblical narrative.  The Apostles&#8217; and Nicene creeds work well because they are basic outlines of the story.  The CRC&#8217;s contemporary creed is a good example of a creedal formulation applying theology to our story.  The Reformational creeds contain some good content, but their forms diminish the biblical-narrative flow.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Baker-Wright</title>
		<link>http://www.jrdkirk.com/2010/03/10/doctrine-good-stories-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-1322</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Baker-Wright</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 18:37:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jrdkirk.com/?p=375#comment-1322</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;When did this all go astray between then and now? When Sunday Schools entrusted instruction to lay people and rather than teaching people theology substituted “instilling of familiarity (or shall we say, perhaps, over-familiarity) with Bible stories” &lt;/I&gt;

I know it goes against the point you&#039;re making, but I could suggest that, if these guys &lt;i&gt;really&lt;/i&gt; want to put an emphasis on doctrine, they could start insisting that Sunday School teachers be trained professionals.

Frankly, that means &lt;i&gt;paying&lt;/i&gt; them, which is why I don&#039;t think even &lt;i&gt;they&lt;/i&gt; would go for it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>When did this all go astray between then and now? When Sunday Schools entrusted instruction to lay people and rather than teaching people theology substituted “instilling of familiarity (or shall we say, perhaps, over-familiarity) with Bible stories” </i></p>
<p>I know it goes against the point you&#8217;re making, but I could suggest that, if these guys <i>really</i> want to put an emphasis on doctrine, they could start insisting that Sunday School teachers be trained professionals.</p>
<p>Frankly, that means <i>paying</i> them, which is why I don&#8217;t think even <i>they</i> would go for it.</p>
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		<title>By: J. R. Daniel Kirk</title>
		<link>http://www.jrdkirk.com/2010/03/10/doctrine-good-stories-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-1320</link>
		<dc:creator>J. R. Daniel Kirk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 17:37:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jrdkirk.com/?p=375#comment-1320</guid>
		<description>Brian, thanks for the scoop on Dr. Parrett. It&#039;s great to hear that he&#039;s a kind and thoughtful Christian man, not a Reformed rottweiler.

The challenge from a Biblical scholarship point of view is that the world and traditions within which we read often read from a theological angle that creates anachronistic readings of texts. Yes, that will always occur, but part of our job is to listen for what it &lt;i&gt;said&lt;/i&gt; in the first century, before hearing what it said to a 16th century audience, before trying to figure out what it &lt;i&gt;is saying&lt;/i&gt; to us now. The challenge that I experience is that folks too often have few categories for thinking like this, and are often not able to see how their theology is determining a reading that would be completely inaudible to early readers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian, thanks for the scoop on Dr. Parrett. It&#8217;s great to hear that he&#8217;s a kind and thoughtful Christian man, not a Reformed rottweiler.</p>
<p>The challenge from a Biblical scholarship point of view is that the world and traditions within which we read often read from a theological angle that creates anachronistic readings of texts. Yes, that will always occur, but part of our job is to listen for what it <i>said</i> in the first century, before hearing what it said to a 16th century audience, before trying to figure out what it <i>is saying</i> to us now. The challenge that I experience is that folks too often have few categories for thinking like this, and are often not able to see how their theology is determining a reading that would be completely inaudible to early readers.</p>
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		<title>By: Cultivating good theology at Undeception</title>
		<link>http://www.jrdkirk.com/2010/03/10/doctrine-good-stories-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-1310</link>
		<dc:creator>Cultivating good theology at Undeception</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 04:26:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jrdkirk.com/?p=375#comment-1310</guid>
		<description>[...] Storied Theology has a great post up in which he&#8217;s critical of an article in the current Christianity Today theme this month by J. I. Packer and Gary A. Parrett in praise of catechism. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Storied Theology has a great post up in which he&#8217;s critical of an article in the current Christianity Today theme this month by J. I. Packer and Gary A. Parrett in praise of catechism. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: rjm</title>
		<link>http://www.jrdkirk.com/2010/03/10/doctrine-good-stories-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-1308</link>
		<dc:creator>rjm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 00:13:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jrdkirk.com/?p=375#comment-1308</guid>
		<description>Hey, I&#039;m just echoing your non-Roman Catholic colleague, who put it very well down below. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, I&#8217;m just echoing your non-Roman Catholic colleague, who put it very well down below. <img src='http://www.jrdkirk.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Dec</title>
		<link>http://www.jrdkirk.com/2010/03/10/doctrine-good-stories-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-1307</link>
		<dc:creator>Dec</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 00:06:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jrdkirk.com/?p=375#comment-1307</guid>
		<description>This topic reminds me of something I read in Robert McKee&#039;s book &quot;Story: Substance, Structure, Style and the Principles of Screenwriting&quot;:

&quot;Story isn&#039;t a flight from reality, but a vehicle that carries us on our search for reality, our best effort to make sense out of the anarchy of existence.&quot;

As Christians, the reality we are being carried towards is a God in relation to his people. It is the quintessential love story, and is told as such in Scripture. It&#039;s depressing to think that people would even hint at placing doctrine, knowledge, over that most story-bound virtue love.

1 Corinthians 13 might not be so well understood after all.

By the way, terrific blog Dr Kirk. Long may it continue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This topic reminds me of something I read in Robert McKee&#8217;s book &#8220;Story: Substance, Structure, Style and the Principles of Screenwriting&#8221;:</p>
<p>&#8220;Story isn&#8217;t a flight from reality, but a vehicle that carries us on our search for reality, our best effort to make sense out of the anarchy of existence.&#8221;</p>
<p>As Christians, the reality we are being carried towards is a God in relation to his people. It is the quintessential love story, and is told as such in Scripture. It&#8217;s depressing to think that people would even hint at placing doctrine, knowledge, over that most story-bound virtue love.</p>
<p>1 Corinthians 13 might not be so well understood after all.</p>
<p>By the way, terrific blog Dr Kirk. Long may it continue.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Maiers</title>
		<link>http://www.jrdkirk.com/2010/03/10/doctrine-good-stories-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-1306</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Maiers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 23:38:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jrdkirk.com/?p=375#comment-1306</guid>
		<description>Guys, 

I had Dr. Parrett as a professor in seminary at Gordon-Conwel, actually last year. I think you may be misunderstanding him a bit. I don&#039;t think he is saying stories bad, doctrine good as much as saying that often we teach are church members bible stories as moral lessons rather than stories about God&#039;s redemption in history. Also, teaching Bible stories without doctrine betrays the fact that we always look at the Bible through the lens of  a tradition. He thinks churches need to ask the question, what must we teach? What is a local church responsible for educating its members about? I think he is right about Catechesis, not because propositions are better than story, but because its important for our church members to know how those before us have read the bible and that we don&#039;t read the bible in a vacuum. By the way, Parrett&#039;s and extremely kind and thoughtful Christian man. He is not a Reformed theology pit bull.  His book should be worth reading.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Guys, </p>
<p>I had Dr. Parrett as a professor in seminary at Gordon-Conwel, actually last year. I think you may be misunderstanding him a bit. I don&#8217;t think he is saying stories bad, doctrine good as much as saying that often we teach are church members bible stories as moral lessons rather than stories about God&#8217;s redemption in history. Also, teaching Bible stories without doctrine betrays the fact that we always look at the Bible through the lens of  a tradition. He thinks churches need to ask the question, what must we teach? What is a local church responsible for educating its members about? I think he is right about Catechesis, not because propositions are better than story, but because its important for our church members to know how those before us have read the bible and that we don&#8217;t read the bible in a vacuum. By the way, Parrett&#8217;s and extremely kind and thoughtful Christian man. He is not a Reformed theology pit bull.  His book should be worth reading.</p>
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		<title>By: Halden</title>
		<link>http://www.jrdkirk.com/2010/03/10/doctrine-good-stories-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-1302</link>
		<dc:creator>Halden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 21:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jrdkirk.com/?p=375#comment-1302</guid>
		<description>Or more generally, that the whole book advocates parroting as theological method.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or more generally, that the whole book advocates parroting as theological method.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Traphagen</title>
		<link>http://www.jrdkirk.com/2010/03/10/doctrine-good-stories-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-1301</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Traphagen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 21:40:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jrdkirk.com/?p=375#comment-1301</guid>
		<description>And some of the smartest ones, Scott, probably left behind the idea that the Bible draws clear and consistent lines of &quot;right vs. wrong,&quot; truth vs. lies,&quot; and even moreso that the Bible has any kind of concept of &quot;inerrancy&quot; in it...not because of your lack of drilling them in theology, but because they actually went on to read the Bible for themselves. 

It was once I started reading the Bible as it is and stopped saying to myself &quot;well, I know that&#039;s what it looks like, but it can&#039;t be, because my theology says...&quot; that I noticed the Bible is far more diverse and wilder than our theologies want to allow us to believe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And some of the smartest ones, Scott, probably left behind the idea that the Bible draws clear and consistent lines of &#8220;right vs. wrong,&#8221; truth vs. lies,&#8221; and even moreso that the Bible has any kind of concept of &#8220;inerrancy&#8221; in it&#8230;not because of your lack of drilling them in theology, but because they actually went on to read the Bible for themselves. </p>
<p>It was once I started reading the Bible as it is and stopped saying to myself &#8220;well, I know that&#8217;s what it looks like, but it can&#8217;t be, because my theology says&#8230;&#8221; that I noticed the Bible is far more diverse and wilder than our theologies want to allow us to believe.</p>
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