Comments on: Pragmatics of Love http://www.jrdkirk.com/2010/07/29/pragmatics-of-love/ Telling the story of the story-bound God Thu, 09 Feb 2012 17:46:23 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Ted M. Gossard http://www.jrdkirk.com/2010/07/29/pragmatics-of-love/#comment-4327 Ted M. Gossard Fri, 30 Jul 2010 18:25:30 +0000 http://www.jrdkirk.com/?p=1023#comment-4327 Yes. I like the thought on pragmatism. I think it is there in Jesus in the gospels. Yes. I like the thought on pragmatism. I think it is there in Jesus in the gospels.

]]> By: Mary Koepke Fields http://www.jrdkirk.com/2010/07/29/pragmatics-of-love/#comment-4289 Mary Koepke Fields Thu, 29 Jul 2010 16:59:45 +0000 http://www.jrdkirk.com/?p=1023#comment-4289 Good stuff. Good stuff.

]]> By: Pduggie http://www.jrdkirk.com/2010/07/29/pragmatics-of-love/#comment-4287 Pduggie Thu, 29 Jul 2010 16:27:45 +0000 http://www.jrdkirk.com/?p=1023#comment-4287 I will say Stafford Carson, a sometime critic of Wright, basically cribbed Wright in this excellent sermon at Tenth on the topic of pragmatism you address. http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=4221011623 I liked how he uses the response to the Sadducees about resurrection. They tried to pose a difficult question mocking Jesus premises about resurrection. This was to the effect that people can raise all kinds of pragmatic concerns about the way we might claim a reordered cosmos is good and necessary and should be worked for, but that the resurrection moots those pragmatic issues entirely. I had some pragmatic concerns about the sermon, but didn't dare voice them :) I will say Stafford Carson, a sometime critic of Wright, basically cribbed Wright in this excellent sermon at Tenth on the topic of pragmatism you address.

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=4221011623

I liked how he uses the response to the Sadducees about resurrection. They tried to pose a difficult question mocking Jesus premises about resurrection. This was to the effect that people can raise all kinds of pragmatic concerns about the way we might claim a reordered cosmos is good and necessary and should be worked for, but that the resurrection moots those pragmatic issues entirely.

I had some pragmatic concerns about the sermon, but didn’t dare voice them :)

]]> By: J. R. Daniel Kirk http://www.jrdkirk.com/2010/07/29/pragmatics-of-love/#comment-4286 J. R. Daniel Kirk Thu, 29 Jul 2010 16:18:19 +0000 http://www.jrdkirk.com/?p=1023#comment-4286 Good points/questions. Nick, I agree that there can be the loss of soul that needs to keep its pride of place/focus. But, I don't agree that these things won't matter in the end. What is it that the pagan nations get to bring into the New Jerusalem, anyway? What is that "glory of the nations" that God is pleased to receive into God's Holy City? Hmm... Pduggie: I'd tend to think that the use of bullets typically means that one is not acting as an agent of the Kingdom of God. There's the cross and all that, you know. Though I would allow for a few exceptions. However, reordering the cosmos through the use of peace--now that's more like it. Good points/questions.

Nick, I agree that there can be the loss of soul that needs to keep its pride of place/focus. But, I don’t agree that these things won’t matter in the end. What is it that the pagan nations get to bring into the New Jerusalem, anyway? What is that “glory of the nations” that God is pleased to receive into God’s Holy City? Hmm…

Pduggie: I’d tend to think that the use of bullets typically means that one is not acting as an agent of the Kingdom of God. There’s the cross and all that, you know. Though I would allow for a few exceptions. However, reordering the cosmos through the use of peace–now that’s more like it.

]]> By: Pduggie http://www.jrdkirk.com/2010/07/29/pragmatics-of-love/#comment-4285 Pduggie Thu, 29 Jul 2010 16:13:11 +0000 http://www.jrdkirk.com/?p=1023#comment-4285 Can it include a reordering of the cosmos by bullets? Can it include a reordering of the cosmos by tax policy? Am I as much an agent of the Kingdom of God when I join the army and kill Taliban soldiers as when I proclaim Jesus died for our sins? see this, too. (disturbing magazine cover this week) http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2007269,00.html Can it include a reordering of the cosmos by bullets?

Can it include a reordering of the cosmos by tax policy?

Am I as much an agent of the Kingdom of God when I join the army and kill Taliban soldiers as when I proclaim Jesus died for our sins?

see this, too. (disturbing magazine cover this week)

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2007269,00.html

]]> By: Nick http://www.jrdkirk.com/2010/07/29/pragmatics-of-love/#comment-4284 Nick Thu, 29 Jul 2010 15:58:39 +0000 http://www.jrdkirk.com/?p=1023#comment-4284 Daniel, I'm not sure I'd say I am "as much as" an agent of the kingdom when I am active for a left-wing (or right-wing) political agenda as I am when I proclaim the gospel or share my faith. I don't mean to downplay the former, and I certainly want to connect it to the kingdom in ways conservatives often don't. But I think we absolutely have to have priorities, and at the end of the day while I love the "cosmic" focus of redemption that is being emphasized in much recent theology, I worry that this is seen as an alternative to individual redemption, not as enlarging and enriching it. I would want to say loud and clear and unapologetically--in both my life and my words--that apart from a person's individual faith in Christ and participation in the new covenant people of God, nothing they do will matter in the end--not because the things they have done are themselves worthless, but because the human being created in God's image will be finally and irrevocably lost. That I created beautiful art or had a healthy body for 80 years (or whatever) is small consolation if I lose my soul. People can still lose their souls even after gaining the whole world in our theologies, right? I worry about our increasing tendency to bypass Jesus and sin and faith when it comes to "kingdom work" today. I'm sure you aren't advocating that--I just worry a bit about overdone tone and emphasis :) Daniel, I’m not sure I’d say I am “as much as” an agent of the kingdom when I am active for a left-wing (or right-wing) political agenda as I am when I proclaim the gospel or share my faith. I don’t mean to downplay the former, and I certainly want to connect it to the kingdom in ways conservatives often don’t. But I think we absolutely have to have priorities, and at the end of the day while I love the “cosmic” focus of redemption that is being emphasized in much recent theology, I worry that this is seen as an alternative to individual redemption, not as enlarging and enriching it.

I would want to say loud and clear and unapologetically–in both my life and my words–that apart from a person’s individual faith in Christ and participation in the new covenant people of God, nothing they do will matter in the end–not because the things they have done are themselves worthless, but because the human being created in God’s image will be finally and irrevocably lost. That I created beautiful art or had a healthy body for 80 years (or whatever) is small consolation if I lose my soul. People can still lose their souls even after gaining the whole world in our theologies, right? I worry about our increasing tendency to bypass Jesus and sin and faith when it comes to “kingdom work” today. I’m sure you aren’t advocating that–I just worry a bit about overdone tone and emphasis :)

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